Hello Wonderful Readers,
Last week, I interviewed Camilla Sievers, founder of Qi Health. Qi is a Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) company that creates personalized blends of natural herbs to solve various problems in women’s health.
Camilla was inspired to create her company from her journey using TCM to relieve her persistent period cramps and other symptoms. Now, her team has built a seamless digital experience to help people access one of the oldest medical systems in the world.
I hope you enjoy our conversation! Feel free to reach out to Camilla on Instagram or LinkedIn to share your healing stories.
Check out her interview in Entrepreneur!
I hope you have a shamelessly sexy weekend 🫦.
Much love,
Tash
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Interview Transcript
[00:00:00] Tash Doherty: Hello, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Misseducated. Our mission for 2025 is to help the world be shamelessly sexy. And that involves a lot of solving women's health problems so that we can all be comfortable in our bodies and happy with our health.
And today, my guest is Camilla Sievers. She's the founder of Qi Health, which is a really awesome direct-to-consumer personalized Chinese medicine blend brand. And we're going to talk all things period pain, her illustrious career as an entrepreneur around the world between Europe, Canada, and America, and anything else that she wants to talk about.
So here we go. Welcome to Misseducated!
[00:00:39] Camilla Sievers: Thank you so much, Tash! I'm so happy to be here.
[00:00:43] Tash Doherty: Welcome, welcome. So you grew up in Austria, your parents are German and Austrian, and what did you want to be when you were a kid?
[00:00:48] Camilla Sievers: I always wanted to be a professional horseback rider because I was always at the stable, and I just love being in nature and with animals. So you know, that would have been my dream, I guess. But other than that, professionally, I never had any aspiration, and I think it comes down to being bad in school that you feel like this, well, this is just not made for you. So, I never dared to dream big in that regard.
[00:01:14] Tash Doherty: I mean, you couldn't have done that badly at school because you did end up at Columbia University at some point, which we'll get into. And so you had no entrepreneurial ambitions at this point. Like, do you have entrepreneurs in your family or how did you get into that?
[00:01:32] Camilla Sievers: I actually, so I grew up in Northern Germany, and then I went to Ireland for the last two years of school. And then, I went to Vienna to study. And my mom had an ophthalmology practice, so yes, she was an entrepreneur. But, it wasn't, you know, you read these biographies of really big entrepreneurs and like that wasn't my life. What shaped me really early on was having two doctors who talked about patients' struggles and healing journeys. And so very early on, that was the conversation that was happening regularly at the dinner table.
And I always felt healing and helping people was something that I aspired to do one day.
[00:02:13] Tash Doherty: Amazing. And you founded your first company, Treats. I'd love to hear all about that. Was that in university still when you decided to like step out into the entrepreneurial journey, a fresh young student out into the real world?
[00:02:26] Camilla Sievers: Yeah, so, you know, it's kind of like, um, all these things fall together in a way, and you can't see them when they fall together, and then you look back, and you're like, oh, that makes sense. First, I studied agricultural sciences, food sciences, and then agronomics, and through my Master's, I really researched in depth the obesity epidemic. So this is like 2011, 2012, and that also brought me to America for the first time because I did all my research there. And, I came back with not only a Master's thesis but an idea for a company where I saw, okay. It's exactly the same that I'm doing now. There's no access to a hundred percent natural foods and drinks.
Everything is full of sugar. It makes people sick. We've created the only diet that makes people sick. And so I wanted to create access, I wanted to educate people and I wanted to make them healthier. Like that was, at the end, the goal with which I started Treats, and I started a company because I thought I was so bad that nobody would hire me. So like, the best way to get around that is to not be hired by anybody else. And, uh, and so, yeah, I started it while I was still writing my Master's thesis and then fully after I handed that in.
[00:03:34] Tash Doherty: That's so interesting because I feel like entrepreneurs, you've got to have a bit of ego, you know, and really believe that you're going to change the world as opposed to: this is the only option that I have because I'm not going to be able to be employed by a corporate monkey.
[00:03:47] Camilla Sievers: Yeah, no, I think it was total imposter syndrome. Uh, but then also, you know, I had a couple of, I guess and like one big entrepreneurial project while at university, and I was just like: wow! It's not reading a textbook and then sitting down for tests. It's actually making something in the real world with real people, and you have to figure it out as you go. And I was so much better at that.
You could see that you've done something, and that was beyond repeating stuff that you've read. But also, it was like this appalling factor of seeing a whole industry that is supposed to keep people healthy doing the opposite.
And so I was just like, there's no marketplace for a hundred percent natural foods and drinks, and I have to create it. And I want people to understand that there are alternatives that are not only amazing for your body but they also taste amazing. Like, you don't have to fall back to oat bars that really have no taste. There's amazing innovation in this space, which I also saw through my studies. And so I wanted to help them along the way of feeling better and adopting a healthier lifestyle.
[00:04:53] Tash Doherty: Yeah, totally. And it's interesting because it does kind of align with capitalism in the sense that people are going to spend money on food. But that's a huge issue, it's health, right? The actual health of the populations and the things that we're dealing with. And, I don't know, I just think about Coca-Cola, where, you know, it's tasty, but it's incredibly bad for the world. There's so much plastic that they're using all the water supplies and all of these giant brands.
And yet, these brands are also fundamental to like our concept of America, so I think it's really interesting to help the consumer aspect of food to evolve into something that's healthier.
[00:05:24] Camilla Sievers: Yeah. It's so funny. My husband is a two-time food and drink entrepreneur. And, I think one of his mentors, I told him the saying that goes, "There's only two times you're really close to a person: when you feed them and when you fuck them." And you know, both should be looked at accordingly. And so it was really always important to me that understanding the closeness to the consumers and understanding that you have to build trust and consumers are not dumb.
They will understand if you sell them something, the same with what we're doing now, that is off the shelf. It is not working. It is not meant to work for the long term because the only objective is to sell you more, which is exactly what the food and, by extension, the pharma industry are doing.
They want you to consume more, not less, and we're kind of like the antithesis. Treats was the antithesis to that. Qi is the antithesis to that. Where it's like we give it to you, you will be healed, and then you won't need it anymore. And so, yeah, I feel like I'm, you know, I'm really proud of that.
[00:06:29] Tash Doherty: Yeah, that is awesome and really cool to look back on your career and be like, there was actually a thread of similar themes, passions, points of the world that I cared about through every single different venture, even if that manifested in different ways.
And I think it's also super important that you mention respecting consumers, especially women. I interviewed my grandmother as well. She took part in the nurse's health study, which was one of the original, large longitudinal studies in women's health. And they found some incredible things, like women experience heart attacks differently in symptoms to men, for example. But originally, they interviewed all doctors, right?
Cause they were like, Oh, women aren't going to be able to tell us these basic things about their health. So, let's interview doctors who have wives. And then it turned out that the doctors didn't know anything about their wives' health. And so then they started with nurses who have an actual medical background who could answer very in-depth health questions on their own conditions and things. And yeah, so I think believing women and believing women's stories are number one. And believing that women, in general, have a sense about their own health. Revolutionary ideas, given the historical course of the patriarchy.
[00:07:35] Camilla Sievers: Yeah, I mean, totally agree.
[00:07:38] Tash Doherty: You achieved Ford's 30 under 30 for working at IP Austria, where you were the business development director. How did you then? Isn't that a corporate job? Like, how did you become a successful corporate girlie soon after? That doesn't make sense.
[00:07:52] Camilla Sievers: I sold my shares four and a half years after starting the company, and I had no idea what I wanted to do next.
And then by complete chance, I got this opportunity to interview for a Bertelsmann subsidiary. And I remember being like, well, like this for sure: I won't get this job, and I also have no clue about media.
But you know, I've never had a job interview, so I kind of want just to go and see what it's like. I went there and again, just luck and I don't know, you know, coincidence, I am meeting like the most wonderful boss that one could ever have. It was an hour-and-a-half conversation about the world and life and God and, you know, all the big things.
And, uh, and then at the end, he's like, well, it's not rocket science. You can learn it. If you want the job, it's yours. And I'm hiring you because I have no idea what you do. So I won't tell you what to do. You just tell me what you need, and I facilitate that. And I thought that was a really, really amazing opportunity.
And I had three amazing years just because it was the least corporate corporate job ever. You know, I asked for three things. I asked for trust, freedom, and budget. And I got all three and, uh, and it paid off. I had an amazing time, did amazing things for the company, and will forever look back at that teaching me so much, not only from my mentor but everybody else and a corporate environment itself.
And then I was actually supposed to go to another Bertelsmann subsidiary to New York and work out of New York. And then the pandemic happened. And so that fell through. And I was like, my 10-year plan to making it back to America since doing me the Master's thesis needs to happen. And so, that's why I went to Columbia. It was really an entry ticket to America. Student visas were the only ones that were issued at the time. And I was just like: I'm just going to do this one-year finance program and like see what happens basically. I didn't even know if I wanted to live there. Right. It was just a year of exploration, and then halfway through, the whole Qi story starts.
[00:10:02] Tash Doherty: So how did you decide to start Qi Health, a direct-to-consumer, personalized Chinese medicine brand?
[00:10:08] Camilla Sievers: So I never had any health problems except for one. I was put on hormonal birth control when I was a teenager, and then I went off it, and I would get like crazy period pain and other symptoms as well that I didn't even like recognize being related to that.
But, I lived in Vienna, I lived in Germany, I lived in Ireland, I lived in London. And like, I would go to all these experts, and everybody was like, your uterus looks textbook. There's nothing wrong. And I was like, okay, this is apparently it like this is what we have to deal with.
And so, I sit next to a friend in Charlottesville, Virginia, and she sees me in pain, and she's like, "You cannot believe that this is normal. And, uh, you need to go see my Chinese medicine doctor." And, of course, because my parents were Western doctors, especially, I never had any exposure to that.
So I didn't even know really what that meant, but she had her own health journey, and I, of course, heard about that beforehand. And so I was like, well, it worked for you for something different. I will give it a shot. And then really, I went there. I went out with some herbs, and I started taking them. And a month later, I had 70 percent less pain.
And then two months after that, I was changed. I had no more night sweats. I had no cold hands and feet. I had no fatigue after meals. I had no fatigue after waking up. I was not thirsty all the time. Like, there was just stuff that, you know, I would have never mentioned to any doctor, and like, half the stuff I never even mentioned to a traditional Chinese medicine doctor were just gone. And I really felt like, wow, like this is what I'm supposed to feel like, and that kind of sparked my interest.
I didn't know at the time that I would start another company, but I was like, how is this? How is this not available? Like, how have I never heard about this? How do I have to send my friend to this doctor to FaceTime me to get my herbs? Like, it's so ridiculous that I can't book this doctor, that I can't find this doctor, like that I can't purchase my own herbs, you know, and like be in control of the process and have some like transparency in the process as well.
I started then interviewing women, of course, and we all know it's like we all like 99 percent of women have some form of female health issue. And depending on their life stage, it just presents itself in different ways. And then Chinese medicine doctors, they have a lot to do. They run a practice,
you know. They're not marketing wizards. Then I, I think, like the thing that I took away, which was a little bit the thing that I took away from my Master's thesis, speaking to those experts, was: you cannot make it any other way than what it's supposed to be. Meaning: it has to be; you have to have a consultation with a certified practitioner. That practitioner has to give you a customized, multi-ingredient, high-dose, clinically effective dose herbal medicine formulation that is then fulfilled by an herbal dispensary that makes it for you.
It cannot be off the shelf. It cannot be a low dose. It cannot be a single ingredient. You know, the thing that we learned with wellness products or supplements in general, and it works, of course, in some instances, but like, you cannot just take one capsule of something, and then that whole symptom goes away.
All your symptoms are connected. They all have a root cause. They have multiple; I mean, I've never seen a person with only one diagnosis. So like, there are multiple things that are out of balance in your body that need to be balanced again. And so I've clearly understood that if I want to do this, what I'm going to do is take the oldest medical system in the world and put it online and not touch it.
I won't touch it. I won't put, you know, fillers in herbal medicine or, you know, make it marginally more accepted to any outside investors or something like that. I would just take it. I would not touch it. And I would bring efficiency in the technology that we're building around it to make it easier to find us, to make it easier to book us, to make it easier for the practitioner to have a consultation, to make it easier for the patient to understand, educate themselves, et cetera, et cetera.
That's my job. But the actual medicine itself, I won't touch. I will keep to the professional.
[00:14:30] Tash Doherty: Yeah, and I'm just to echo everything that you've said so far. I did a consultation with one of your amazing consultants. Dr. Mary. And you know, she asked me a lot of different questions. I think it also goes back to, again, when we're talking about the wellness industry, it's like seeing the body more as a system, right? So it's like, not just, yes, I have really bad painful period cramps, but it's also connected to like my bowel, and like my sleeping, and like my body aches, and those kinds of things.
That's exactly what I have here in my customized blend, which is 250 grams. So you take four capsules three times a day. So you're actually taking like a legit amount of these herbs, as you're saying.
[00:15:02] Camilla Sievers: And it is because, you know, you cannot put more herbs in a capsule. So like, of course, if you have to have a higher dose, you need to take more capsules. Yeah.
[00:15:09] Tash Doherty: And then I have like 10 Chinese herbs that I don't know what they are, but I'm sure that Dr. Mary does. And it's another alternative. And I will admit that I blanket solved all my problems by getting a hormonal IUD. The micrograms of whatever, Levonorgestrel, Western Medicine, blah blah blah. But a lot of people don't want to have to take hormonal birth control, and so there are gonna be other options out there for people who are like: Hey, I don't want to put these hormones in my body or shove this thing into my uterus. Is there anything you can do for me?
I think it's interesting how Western medicine is, in that sense, a bit arrogant, you know? Like we're so involved with this food industrial complex. We're solving these surface-level issues, whereas traditional Chinese medicine has been around for thousands of years. And they're like: Oh yeah, here are the 10 herbs that you need to take.
[00:15:54] Camilla Sievers: The original medicine. It's the OG, you know? Now, it's the alternative. It was the OG for a very long time. No, I agree. But I've talked to enough PCPs and OBGYNs to understand like they are all doing this because they want to heal people, right?
Like, they are not malicious in a way that they're like: Oh yeah, I'm just going to put you on birth control and hope for the best. That's what they've been taught. Then, of course, it's never great for anybody to see reoccurring patients coming back with reoccurring issues and they're like, I don't have a solution. I don't have a solution. And especially if female health has been under researched, underfunded, like not one single person is at fault. It's the whole system that needs to be looked at and adjusted.
So Chinese medicine practitioners need to, of course, go to school and have five to seven years of schooling and they, of course, do a lot of chemistry and biochemistry courses. They know exactly how herbs interact with prescription drugs. And they always look at: what can I do that's complementary to somebody who is on something or wants to take something for it because it works, right? So it never is this, um, it's Chinese herbs or nothing. It's like, whatever is good for you, we will find the right mix and we will find the right solution. And if your doctor who you talk to doesn't have a solution and doesn't maybe even know what the cluster of symptoms is called, Chinese medicine will always find a pattern.
[00:17:25] Tash Doherty: Yeah, and even I've been working for the last year at Clue in their content strategy, and it's really interesting because obviously, you use Clue like any kind of period tracking app to track your period. But, as we're saying, the menstrual cycle affects female bodies in so many varied ways. You know, like sleep, exercise, energy levels, health patterns, skin, and hair. Yes, of course, you don't want to have period cramps; we've all been there, but it's just seeing the body as a system of all these different interconnected things. That's why I wasn't really interested when Dr. Mary was asking me about my poop. Because I was just like: well, maybe I shouldn't be having more regular bowel movements, and I'd feel healthier? I think that's what's really interesting about this form of medicine is that I'm thinking about my body in like 10 different factors, uh, which I hadn't really thought about before.
Can you tell us a little bit more about the first time that you went into the clinic for yourself, the Chinese medicine experience, and what that was like?
[00:18:19] Camilla Sievers: It was really odd because it was also still COVID, of course, we're talking about mid-2021. We were all still wearing face masks like the doctor asked me a bunch of questions and wrote a bunch of notes. I had to send her a picture of my tongue because she didn't want to look at it. And then she was like, okay, wait. Got some acupuncture. Wait here. And then I didn't get a diagnosis.
She didn't explain anything to me, and then she just handed me a white bottle, uh, with no label, nothing on it, no ingredients, nothing, and this powder, and she's like, take this twice a day in warm water. And it was disgusting. Everybody who's ever taken something like this knows it, right?
It's like, the bitter, the better. I didn't have an all-inclusive great experience, which is why also we wanted to really focus on how can we A) prepare people for a consultation so that they're not like, why are you asking about my pee and my poop? You know, and like, what do a day before my menses, why is it different that, you know, like all these things, like, how can we prepare them for what's about to happen?
But then also, how can we make sure that the practitioner has all the necessary information he or she still needs to make a real, uh, a customized prescription that is working but also answer all of your questions.
And so, my goal is that the patient should go away and have the feeling of it is a mixture between a very highly-educated medical professional and my hairdresser. Like the hairdresser you go to, you love, you don't change for 30 years. I want people to come back throughout their life when they have another imbalance heading them when they go into infertility struggles, or postpartum struggles, or perimenopausal struggles, whatever it is. I want them to come back and be like, this is my person. And really, the human online touch was very important for us to figure out, because then, of course, it takes a lot to take pills three times a day and to stick to a routine. And what we noticed was that when we get people to really trust the doctor as a prescription, and you know, the digital platform behind it, um, then people will take it, and if they take it as prescribed, you know, we see on average like, all symptoms on average, eight symptoms, uh, going down by over 50 percent within the first four weeks. And that, of course, makes people trust more and stick to the program, right?
But then also really like making them understand, the same way I did with Treats. This is not a quick fix. I will not fix you in two hours because, you know, the two hour things that we are accustomed to, they really also don't work if you don't take them here. It's really the long-term solution. And for you to find full and long-term relief, you have to be on the program for a couple of months. It is just that way, you know, that's how it's always been. And we're very open about that.
[00:21:14] Tash Doherty: Yeah, totally. It is definitely a commitment. But as you're saying, it's like this is a lifestyle choice, how you're approaching your health in general, and I think the holistic nature of it is like incredibly interesting.
[00:21:26] Camilla Sievers: It's gentle on the body; taking painkillers every month like that is not good for your intestinal lining.
[00:21:32] Tash Doherty: Totally. And you decided to do direct-to-consumer, and I'm actually so interested in this because I'm like, it's obviously a women's health product, it's always a challenge to get investors. But you guys are basically creating a new market for Chinese medicine practitioners, and you have a subscription model. So I don't understand how difficult it is to, you know, for you guys to raise money. And do you want to speak a little bit to that experience so far? And--
[00:21:58] Camilla Sievers: Yeah, for sure. Totally.
[00:22:00] Tash Doherty: How have the initial customers been in the early days of getting Qi off the ground?
[00:22:03] Camilla Sievers: It's so funny because the first thing that we did was an in-house trial. We had a couple of hypotheses that we wanted to test. And, of course, like the biggest one was: what's the experience needing to look like for people to give this a shot? And will this work? Like, will this actually work? Or was I this unicorn that, uh, had the sealing story, and nobody else would have it? And so I really feel we did a good job in understanding what kind of people came to us, what they were looking for, and how we guided them through the process.
After we did the trial, we grew more and more. We figured out some like small kind of bugs here or there. And then we started raising money about a year after that. And surprise, we got money from two Asians who are like, yeah, I mean, I've done this all my life. I live in San Francisco, but I go back to Shanghai or Hong Kong like every three months to see my practitioner, and that practitioner heals me, and then I fly back to America. That was, of course, uh, funny.
So those were the first two VCs. Magic Fund and Entrepreneur Ventures had invested in us. And then we got Business Angels, and those were all, it was either patients who were like, I need this to exist, or people who have had amazing experiences with traditional Chinese medicine were like, yeah, I wish this would have existed when I went through my journey, and it's the same now.
So we're still in the midst of the fundraising process, but I feel like it's going to be a female VC, maybe an Asian, and people who had their lives changed with traditional Chinese medicine. And yes, of course, it's not easy because you're doing what the classic wellness industry is not doing, which is, it's off the shelf, it's mass-produced, and you don't go deep; you go wide.
So, like, the more SKEWs you have, the better. The more distribution channels you have, the better. There is no individualization. And it's, of course, not necessarily cheaply produced, but it is definitely not as individualized, made for you, produced. And so, that's the first thing.
And the second thing, of course, because it is and because you're talking to a professional, it's like four times, five times the price of those supplements. It's also 15x the dose like this, which is already too much to handle. And, like, you have this subscription model, you don't have the same margins as supplement companies, and then you're going after women's health. So yeah, yes. Could I have chosen an easier business to run and raise money for? Absolutely.
[00:24:36] Tash Doherty: Yeah, but you know what? I believe this because I have other friends who've also built medtech devices in women's health. And I just think, like, I'm not built on this Earth to be a SaaS company salesman. You know what I mean? Like, if I ever loved SaaS company sales, I could just go do that, and I would be making 500k a year or whatever, and I would be rich, and it would be great. But I would be so bored. This is, you're really solving like an actual health issue that people are facing or a lot of various number of health issues as well. And that's a lot more impactful, I would say, than making another SaaS company so.
[00:25:09] Camilla Sievers: Totally.
[00:25:10] Tash Doherty: I guess my other question is: what advice would you have for your younger self or another girl finishing college today?
[00:25:17] Camilla Sievers: I think there's a lot more to explore, you know, like give yourself grace. And be sweet and nice, you know, don't put yourself down. Like, your life is so long, and I feel like the twenties are really tumultuous, and like you figure a lot of stuff out. But then you evolve, and you become a different person through your experiences. And in the 30s, it is like a whole other thing. So I feel like it's just being kind to yourself, treating yourself as you would others because you probably treat others really nice and, uh, and just trust your gut feeling. I never really knew what that was because I was so driven by external stuff that it takes a while to listen to, but it's definitely there. And it's the best compass that you can have, for sure.
[00:26:07] Tash Doherty: And what are you reading right now? Or whose work do you love? And what is giving you inspiration these days?
[00:26:15] Camilla Sievers: So it's so interesting because I got a great book gifted for Christmas by a friend. It's called "The Surreal Life of Leonora Carrington," and she's just a trailblazer. If you're not an art historian, you probably have never heard about her, but she was the muse to Max Ernst. She is an amazing painter, and she has just this amazing life.
And I've read that over the holidays. And I was just like: wow, like, women are such fierce, you know, human beings. And like these stories need to be told.
And then I actually had a call with an advisor shortly before Christmas, and she told me, "You need to read this book." This book was just given to me. And, now I'm like, I just started it. It's called "Lady Tan's Circle of Women." And it's about this woman in Ancient China having basically no rights. But she finds a circle of women, and there's also, of course, some Chinese medicine involved, and she makes an impact.
People and adults have some certain form of box for us: the way we should dress, the way we should talk, the way we should look, what we should do. It's breaking out of that and saying no. But I'm destined to do something else, and this just doesn't seem right to me. I feel like this fulfillment. No matter what you do, you can be like, I'm really good at waitressing, and I love, you know, serving people, and that's what I will do. You will find fulfillment there. And don't believe that if you can't find fulfillment in the simplest things that you will find fulfillment as a global CEO because you won't. It was never about the job or the position.
It's about what makes you feel you are being your most productive, most valuable self. And you're actually having an impact on the world, whatever that might be. And the world can be the world, or the world can be your five-people community. And with that, I'm inspired by these kinds of people, you know? Reading these kinds of stories, talking to my friends, and talking to my friends who've become mothers and, like, are going through motherhood right now. Like it's the world is full of wonder and I feel, you know, if you open your ears and eyes and listen, like you will find these kinds of inspiration everywhere.
[00:28:27] Tash Doherty: And I love that idea because there's also that quote of do what makes you come alive. Those stories can be really helpful as well for helping people be inspired by other people's journeys. And yeah, Leonora Carrington, at least she spent some time in Mexico, so she's slightly more well-known here. Well, I'll have to read that book as well. That sounds fascinating. And the last question before we wrap up is: how can my listeners be useful to you?
[00:28:48] Camilla Sievers: We were just featured in Entrepreneur, and the people who have reached out to me with their healing stories, men and women of all ages. It's just incredible. And I think people need to hear those stories. Because the medical system is not going to tell you, the mainstream media is also not going to tell you. So I, I kind of like have this in the back of my mind, I want to have this, and I don't know what it is yet, maybe it's a newsletter, maybe it's, it's just an Instagram post, but I want to take these healing stories and put them out in the world for people to read. So, if any of your listeners have any healing stories, I would love to hear about them.
[00:29:29] Tash Doherty: Amazing. And where can they find you? What are some of your Instagram handles and things?
[00:29:34] Camilla Sievers: All my name, Camilla Sievers. You'll find me everywhere: Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn.
[00:29:42] Tash Doherty: Amazing. Well, thank you so much, Camilla, for this really eye-opening discussion. And I'm super excited to see how this company goes, how the market expands. And there's a lot of people who are using traditional Chinese medicine in the US. So, let's see if we can make it a more seamless digital experience and get people online to do that.
[00:29:58] Camilla Sievers: Yay! I love it. Thank you so much.
[00:30:00] Tash Doherty: Thanks so much for joining us. Bye!
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