Open Relationships 101

Intro

Hello Wonderful Readers,

Sometimes, it’s the chance encounters that can lead to the most fruitful stories. And that’s exactly what happened when I met Pauline about a month ago.

As you know, our mission at Misseducated is to help the world be shamelessly sexy, and as far as I'm concerned, very few people embody that quite as much as Pauline. I was going to publish another article this week, but I just had to share her story with you all. It’s too good!

Here we discuss her open relationship, her views on sexuality, and her overall attitude towards being a woman and life. And I am telling you, you do not want to miss the second half of this conversation especially.

If you like this show, please consider subscribing, leaving us a review or a rating wherever you get your podcasts to help us reach more people. With that, I bring you Pauline and our discussion, “Open Relationships 101.”

Love,

Tash

💌 ✍️

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Transcript

Tash Doherty: Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Misseducated with me, your host, Tash Doherty. And today we have a very interesting and special conversation with Pauline. She's a girl that I met about a month ago now when we were out. We got talking about the blog, and it came up in conversation that she's in an open relationship, and so I was dying to know all about her experiences.

So that's what we're going to ask her about today. Pauline, welcome to Misseducated!

Pauline: Thank you. Hello, everyone.

Tash Doherty: Welcome. Welcome. So, could you tell us a little bit, as much as you feel comfortable, where you're from? Or how do you identify in terms of your sexuality and roughly how old you are? And also your partner as well?

Pauline: Sure, so my name is Pauline. I'm French, and I am in an open relationship. It's been like, I think it's been four years now. And my partner is also French, and we've been together for four years. I am 28, and he's turning 29 next week. Yeah, and we begin our open relationship. He was the one who brought it up at the beginning. He was like, what do you feel about it? Blah, blah, blah. And I was pretty curious about it. So, in terms of, like, sexuality, I consider myself as pansexual. And my boyfriend is like bi-curious. So yeah, I need to connect with the person, like, I don't care about the sex and the gender.

We've been exploring a lot together. Uh, it hasn't been that easy, but I think it was interesting. It was really interesting. I need to deconstruct a lot of stuff to like being able to actually do it and enjoy it. But I feel like it's worth it.

Tash Doherty: Yeah. That's so awesome. Thank you for sharing that. And so, how did you originally meet your partner?

Pauline: We met on Tinder. I was coming like from a long relationship. And I was like, okay, you know what, I need to get myself out there, blah, blah, blah. But I'm, like, so bad with all the texting and shit. So, I don't know, I saw him, and I was like, you're cute. So, I sent him a message, and I was like, alright, I'm gonna go straight to the point. Like, do you want to have a drink this Saturday? Because I can't be fucked to like talk to you for like ages. And I don't know what was gonna happen or not. I'm pretty straightforward. If one day I'm ever like, totally single again, this is something I want more in my life because we don't really tell women to go get it kind of. We’re kind of like wait until someone comes.

This is something that I don't want; if I just want it, then I need to be not afraid of a no. So that's what I've done. And he was like, yeah, sure. So, we went for a drink and then it was a magical and really fun night. And since then, we've been together, and we moved to Mexico City together.

Tash Doherty: That’s awesome. And so you had sex like the first time that you guys met?

Pauline: Yeah. Yeah, I didn't care. Like, I go with my – try to understand how am I feeling and like, do I want it? Do I don't want it? So, I was like, okay, like he's cute. Let's see. And I wasn't looking for anything serious. So, I was like, I just want to have fun.

And the second date with him, he was like, “Oh, do you want a relationship?” And I got pretty upset. Like I was like, “Why are you asking me that? Is it because I'm a woman?” And he's like, “No, no, I just want to know like where you stand.”

And I got really, like, in a defensive mode, and I was like, “Well, I just want to know at first if I like you, and let's see how it goes.” And I was like, “Maybe I just want to fuck, you don't know.” So, so yeah, and he was like, “Yeah, but you know, like, I actually really like you. And if, if I would ever be like in a relationship it would be with you.” And I was like, “Okay, that's weird.”

Tash Doherty: Even from the second date? Just after one night that you guys spent together?

Pauline: Yeah, I think he had like a bad experience, and he was like, “Oh, I want to, like, explore a bit,” and then he met me, and he was like, “Oh, I want something different with you.”

But he didn't say it in a good way. It was just a bit like clumsy in how he talked and stuff. And I was like, “What do you want?” I've been with some people that were kind of like mind-fucker and I was like, I hope you're not one of those. So, I was pretty straightforward.

And I think this is something that I want to be more and more like; I want to say what I want and what I don't want and if, and if you're not agreeing with it, then good, but I don't want to like second guess or tiptoeing.

Tash Doherty: Yeah, I think in some Instagram bullshit meme I saw, it was like, you can't say the wrong thing to the right person. Asking for what you want, being forward. It works with somebody who also wants that.

Pauline: Yeah, I agree. He said I love you after a month. Like, he was like, yeah. And I was like, wow. But I was also really impressed. Because I think I'm a person that I couldn't be like that because I know that, like, my story makes me want to like protect myself a lot and protect my heart a lot and being scared of being hurt and all of that and I was like wow you're not scared of being hurt. You just say what you think and I thought it like I was pretty impressed. And then, like, because, like, each time we're saying that story, he's like, yeah, but, like, he said, “You said you were scared, but you stayed. It's been four years, girl.” And I'm like, yeah, no.

Tash Doherty: That's so funny. And so, when you mentioned your previous long-term relationship, had you ever been in an open relationship before?

Pauline: Never. And I think we should have because we were like long distance and we both like cheated on each other. So it wasn't good. We should have like talked about it, but I was maybe too young, and I think I didn't know about open relationships at all. So, now, like, I know more about it, and I think it's not about—because for me, open relationship meant it's not serious. You can't be really attached to the person if you're doing that and not really in love with it. Or it's just like someone you're having fun with. And I was in, like, kind of like associating that to someone we love, and you're like, oh, it's actually two different people.

It's hard for me to evolve with someone, to be always on the same page with the person. And sometimes you're not, and it's okay. Especially because we're so young, you have to allow myself or the other person to explore and, like, live who you are.

Tash Doherty: Yeah, and especially, I always think back to my grandfather grew up in a village in Ireland where there were, like, five people. We're like living in different cities or moving for college or, uh, exploring our own careers, changing jobs constantly. So, you do need to, yeah, think about how you want to evolve and explore with a person. And that is what an open relationship can offer as opposed to more strictly monogamous couples.

Pauline: Yeah, no, I agree on that because I come from like a small village in the south of France. I can't do an open relationship there because it's kind of like everyone knows each other, so it would be just weird; you would just be like. When you come from a village, it's also a lot about like you meet someone maybe in college or maybe in high school and then you get married and blah blah blah. And you don't have to think about like open relationships. Or you know, like, one club that is really far away, and you're like your parents say, “Oh, only weirdos go there.” I didn't know nothing about it, but I had like this weird image of like people in relationship, but it's like old and weird and having masks and in the dark and like. Maybe it's because we don't have a lot of representation in like movies and stuff. Or the only one we have is like always, I don't know, 50 Nuances of Gray, and like, it's always like really, really intense.

Tash Doherty: Yeah. Exactly. And your partner had not been in an open relationship before, either?

Pauline: No, actually. He wanted to with his ex, but then she was like, “Oh, I don't want to do that anymore.”

And then they stayed together, and nothing ever happened. And when he was with me, he's like, “I really want to try it.” So, it was really funny, like, the first day we went. I was really lucky. I had, like, a friend of a friend who was beginning to do these private parties in Paris. We were living in Paris at the time, and they were like, “Okay. I'm doing this kind of event, like, no worries. It's super secure. Come! We’ll be only like young people. And it's not like a room and people looking at each other and having sex. It's just like a big house. You can dance. There’s music. There's a bar that you can like explore.”

Tash Doherty: Yeah, like a play party.

Pauline: Yeah, a play party. So I was really like, “Okay, cool! Let's go.” I remember like we both like took a shot of tequila or something before going. Like we were like shaking hands. We were so nervous, like really nervous. We were like, “Okay. What's gonna happen? Like we have to have um, like a word, you know? A word together if something like to get out of here.” And I don't remember what the word was, but—

Tash Doherty: And this was the first time that you had ever, like opened up your relationship just with him.

Pauline: Yeah.

Tash Doherty: And how long have you been together at this point?

Pauline: Seven months? Something like that. I know that like when we were partying together, like it happens that we kissed other people. But it was really like in a playful way, like not, not like sexual. We just want to have fun. We're in parties, and I don't know. So that was it, but we never slept with anyone, never like on a like playing and doing something. I think we tried outside of the party, not we tried, but like, we kind of like question it, but I'm always I'm scared that people are scared. So, both of us are like, “Oh, that person,” and it's too much to handle for that person. Or we misunderstood the signs or whatever. Like, I'm shy. Like, I don't know how to go for it like that. And it's always the thing: if I like someone, the person needs to, and if the person likes me, the person needs to also like my partner. It's a double. It's a package, so.

Tash Doherty: But you were only, like, gonna play together at this party? Like that was the plan?

Pauline: Yeah, that was the plan. Yeah, we went to this party, and I think we observed a lot. We've done some stuff. I ask a lot of questions, and I questioned like what I was doing. What do I like? Do I like to look? Do I like to participate? Like, what is it?

But it was interesting because it was a bunch of like people that were like really young and that were also like us, like, “Oh, me too. I was so stressed before I come blah, blah, blah.” And it was interesting because I was scared that it was just like a bunch of like old creepy people. But it wasn't like. It was just like, yeah. So, I was pretty happy about that.

Tash Doherty: Do, either of you have a tendency for like exhibitionism or being a voyeur? Or was it too soon in your journey at that point to discover that from the first play party that you went to?

Pauline: Yeah, I think it might be like a bit too soon. I think what is interesting in that is that uh, people that we met, they ask a lot of questions. Like: is it okay? Can I kiss you? Can I touch you here? Like, this is something that I like, and just a monogamous relationship I never fucking had.

I was really like genuinely happy to actually explore and to actually have people that are that concerned also about: are you okay? Can I do this? Can I not? Like, we can stop at any time, like, you know, no worries. And I was like, okay, this is great. It was a first great start.

We had fun, but it wasn't that easy. Like, we've done some parties where I wasn't feeling comfortable, or I didn't match with the person, but my boyfriend, yes. Or in the middle of action, I was like, actually, no. And then we stopped. I think it's a journey. Like I said, sexuality is an emotion.

Like you have to listen to it, there are some times I'll be super like, yeah, let's go. And there are some times I'll feel like really insecure about myself. So I won't be secure with my boyfriend having something else with someone else. So, I don't know. It depends on where you are in your mind.

And if you're comfortable or not, if you're confident or not. I know a lot of people can detach themselves for like sexuality. “Oh, I'm just having sex. And my mind, I put it somewhere else.” Which, for me, like my mind is so connected to my body. If I'm not into it, if my mind is somewhere else, then my body will react to it and won't want that kind of pleasure with someone I don't know, for example.

Tash Doherty: Right. And speaking of bodies, have you noticed anything around like your menstrual cycle? I don't know. I'm just curious. Do you find, like, if it's closer to your period, you're like feeling more insecure, so you don't want to go to a play party or have you not?

Pauline: Well, it's so weird. So, one night that we went to a play party, I had my period. So, I was like, okay, I'm not gonna do anything. And my period stopped for that night! So I don't know what happened. It literally stopped, and then it went back the day after, and I was like, okay, this is weird. But yeah, no, my sexuality depends of like my cycle for sure. I think like sometimes I'm just like—I just want to be like in my bed and like drinking hot chocolate. Because it's still a lot of effort to put yourself out there and when you go to play party you dress. So, sometimes, I just don't want to look pretty. Like, I just want to, I just want to be alone, and it's okay.

Tash Doherty: So, apart from your word that you use with your partner, do you feel comfortable sharing your current word, or is there other cues that you use and other rules that you follow in your relationship regarding being open?

Pauline: Yeah, I think, like, through the different parties we've done, the first rule is that we're together. So, we always do stuff together. We basically we opened but together. Like, people like come with us. And the other role is that the priority is us. This is something that we always say to each other. So, this is like a plus. This is not something that should be really important. So, it's like, for example, for six months, if I don't want to, if he doesn't want to, we are just not going to do it. Because it's—it's not a priority.

And then if between the two of us, it’s not going well, we're not going to open our couple at all because we need to be stable and to understand each other. And I think this is the more important. So yeah, we have this and we, we look at each other in the eyes a lot. Like, okay, what do you think? Like we kind of like communicate a lot through the night.

We send like text messages. So, it's a lot of communication, but the rules always evolve each time we're doing it. It's been a while we haven't done it, actually. But each time we were doing it, we kind of like sit before and we're like, “Okay, what's your mind in today? What do you want to do? What do you want to explore? How do you feel? Where's your head at today?” And it's always like evolving, like, because we are always evolving as well. And maybe there’s some stuff that we weren't into four months ago, and now we’re like, “Oh, maybe I want to try this, and it could be fun.”

Tash Doherty: Totally. I love those rules about the priority is us and also playing together because that's why I was so curious to interview you specifically about this topic; because I think people can use open relationships to, I don't know, explore with other partners and stuff but not in a way that necessarily prioritizes that relationship. And have you, like, brought up individually playing with people separately or do you think that's, like, not something that you'd be open to?

Pauline: Well, this is something that happened. I think it was before coming to Mexico City, so a year ago. So, we are very different people. We're opposite by the look, the mind, everything is different and also in life.

I think I spend a lot of time to travel to understand myself more than actually knowing exactly what I want to do in life and having a job. Like, I put that first. And he's the opposite. Since he's like 15 years old, he’s work, work, work, work, work, and now he's at a time where he's like, “Fuck, like, I need to explore the world. Like, I've been just working my ass off. I need to understand myself better. There's so much to offer.”

And me, I arrived at the point where I was like, “I need to work. I need to actually know what I want to do as a living.”

So, he left for, I think, for a year. We were living together at the time, and I was kind of, like, his base camp. He was having all his stuff at mine, and from there he was like traveling. From there, I was like, “I think we should do an open relationship.”

And he was so surprised. He was like, “Really?” I'm like, “Yeah, I'm not gonna see you like every two months. Like, you're going to be away for, like, I don't know how long.” At that time, I was thinking more as, “If you were my best friend, I would have loved you to discover yourself.”

And I think I've done that a bit for myself also. If I'm going to be like totally transparent, like I think yeah, I think a part of me was like, “Oh, he's going to explore and know what he's like, what he doesn't like.” It is better for him to know it now, if we're going to be in a long-term relationship than like—or they explode and being like, “Oh, okay, I need to discover myself sexually because I haven't when I was in my 20s.”

Tash Doherty: Right.

Pauline: So it was like, you do you.

Tash Doherty: I love that carefree attitude toward it. It's so refreshing and awesome.

Pauline: Yeah. With my partners, I tend to like sometimes put myself out of like: You're just a human. Like you're just—like I love you, but you're just a human, and I don't know, like I really want the best for you because I've done that like five years before him.

I was the one who was like, who was traveling and exploring my sexuality, what I wanted, what I didn't want. But at that time, I was still in a relationship with someone. And I wish that person told me like, “You know, you can explore it. You can do whatever you want.”

So that was the only time we've done it. It was hard, though. It wasn't that easy because, for him, he was also exploring, like boys. This is something that, through his history or with his family, whatever, he needed to understand that part of him.

And which I think was, like, really cool. Happy that he went through that, but I also had the thing of like, “I want to be the coolest girl and, like, you enjoy and blah blah blah.” But I had a part of me where sometimes I was like, angry or upset or like, because the rule were to telling each other everything.

So it wasn't that easy, like, we called each other, “What have you done last night?” and it's not like you're super okay with it. You're not. Like, I wasn't. Like, he wasn't either. But in either way, if he would have done that if I didn't say we open relationship, it would be a struggle anyway.

Tash Doherty: Right, right.

Pauline: For me, it's a bit of a bullshit to say that, like when you're on your own traveling in your 20s, and you have a lot of attractive people because it was for the carnival of Rio. So, I was like, “Come on!” Like people are half fucking naked all day. You're gonna drink. I know that you love me. This is not something that I question. This is more like, we're young, I know, like, we can be attracted to other people. So, yeah. So we've done, we've done that, but it's funny because at that time our relationship were going, like, really well, so we were done, we've done that. And he had, like, he had a first part in Latin America, a second part in Asia, and in Asia we didn't open our relationship. So it was really, like, different.

Because it's also like it caused some distance because he lived that and I wanted to know, but also, I'm like, “Do I want to know more?” It's not that easy. And I also saw some people on my side. So, and I kind of got attached to someone. But I was like, look, I love my boyfriend. Like, he's coming back in, like, two weeks.

Tash Doherty: And did you, like, bring that up with him as well?

Pauline: Yeah, we talked about it. Like, well, he knew it. Like, he basically, one of his last travel, he made a surprise. Like, kind of like, “Surprise! I'm coming back.” Like, I didn't know that. And then my flatmates back in the time were like—because I wake, I woke up, and then I was going to work, and I was like, “Oh yeah, you know, like tonight, uh, I'm having a date with this guy.” And they look at me and I was like, and in a weird way, I was like, okay, they're weird this morning. What's going on? And I remember taking like my bike to go to work and then receiving this message being like, “We didn't know how to say it to you, but your boyfriend is actually back tonight.” And I'm like, what?

Yeah. And I was like, fuck, okay. But he knew because I told him, like, he's like, “What are you doing tonight?” That guy tonight. So he knew, but then he got really pissed because my flatmates destroyed the surprise.

Tash Doherty: And your flatmates knew you were in an open relationship, too, right?

Pauline: Yeah, they knew that, but I think they didn't know how transparent we were with it. And they were like, closer to me, so they were like, “Okay, we need to tell her.” And then my boyfriend got really pissed, and like, “Who do you think we are?” Like, I think they were just doing it to protect me. Like, that's okay, you know?

Tash Doherty: Yeah, totally. I've got some questions from the audience here. Do you see your relationship as always being open, or do you think at some point in the future, you might be monogamous for a longer period of time?

Pauline: I don't know, it's a good question. I think it depends of who I'm going to be in, in a few years. And I don't know who I'm going to be in a few years. So, so I'm really, I'm really trying to adapt. I'm trying to be the most sincere with myself and how I'm living my life. There's a lot of stuff I can predict, and there's some stuff I can't. If one day I'm going to have, I want to have kids; it's going to be complicated to have an open relationship and kids.

So, that's not going to be it. But maybe once my kid's going to be raised and done and going to high school, maybe I'll open again. Or maybe not. Maybe I'll be like, fuck that. Or maybe I won't be in my relationship, and I'll be a lesbian, I don't know. Like, that's like, I have no idea. But I'm happy of not having an idea because it allows you to be whoever you want. And that's what I want for myself. If I want to say fuck it in 10 years, then I can. Because I don't have this plan of myself in 10 years.

Tash Doherty: Right. And as you said, sexuality is an emotion as well, so you want to be able to feel what you want at any given point in time.

Pauline: Exactly. Exactly, because I think like if the little Pauline, who was like eight that has all this princess and fairy stuff in mind, like Prince Charming had in mind that she would be like in an open relationship, she would be like, “Fuck no, I want a Prince Charming!”

And now I'm 10 years later, and I'm, I'm like, “Prince Charming, what? That doesn't exist.”

Tash Doherty: Right. And then another classic question from the audience is, have you ever felt jealous in that sense? And then how did you deal with the jealousy, for example, at different points in you being open and maybe long distance as well?

Pauline: Oh yeah. Yeah, I've been jealous. But it's also because it's really about self-esteem, to be honest. It's really, like, how you feel about yourself. And you're always scared that the person's gonna be like, “Fuck you, I'm going with the other person because she's better than your ass.” But, like, it never happens. This is just like, what is in your mind?

I can't be against this emotion. Like, I'm jealous, and it's gonna be there, and I'm just like, let it be. You know what, you're just jealous, and it doesn't make sense, but a lot of stuff doesn't make sense, so it's okay to be like that.

I think at the beginning, I was trying to be like, oh, I shouldn't feel like that. I should feel like, happy, and like, blah, blah, blah. But no, like, we're humans; it's always gonna be more complicated than what you thought it would be.

Tash Doherty: I really find it so admirable when you're almost being so confident in yourself that you give your partner the freedom to, like, go and explore. I feel like that's such a mature attitude. I'm like, damn, like, I want to be more mature like that.

Pauline: I really think that I've done it for myself, also. I'm like, if I don't let you explore now, you're gonna do it anyway. Because I self-reflect on that. Because sometimes I'm like, fuck, I'm cool. And then I'm like, nah, nah, nah, that's something else. Like, I think I also control that.

Like, that's what I think about controlling. Because I control that right here, right now, you're open. So, you're doing whatever you want. And at least I'm not being cheated on, for example. This is something that I also like thought it was like Yeah, I really love him. And yeah, like I really want the best for him. But there's also something that I've done a bit for myself, I think. Because we're so young that I'm like, “Okay, if we really want to be for each other for a long time, like, we're not our grandparents.” And I really want to believe that, like, you can have like one true love, like all your life like in the movies. But life is not like in the movies. So, I wish it was. Like, I love rom-coms, but it's not it.

Tash Doherty: I agree. That really rings a bell. What other misconceptions do you think people have about open relationships?

Pauline: A lot of people think that it's because we don't love each other. And for me, it's the opposite. For me, it's the biggest proof of love being like, “Okay, I'm gonna put myself out of the equation and like, what do you really want?” I think a lot of people find it a bit not dirty but trash. But we met some people that were like really lovely, actually, and it was—we made friends with a lot of people.

I'm just done with the taboo around sexuality. So if you're with someone, the exploration of sexuality is done now, like, because you're with someone, and usually, monogamous with cis heterosexual people is kind of like the same always, and you don't explore. And you're like, “Oh, okay, so this is sexuality, and then this is done.” I'm like, “You can have so much pleasure.” And my boyfriend was the first one who bought me a sex toy and being like, “Okay, like explore yourself with it and have fun.”

And I was like, “This is so cool.” Like, and it should be like that. This is something that has been so much yeah, like taboo. As a woman, you can't explore that, you can't do this. And then it's always a man kind of like controlling all of it, which is sad.

And I'm like, I want to be with someone and with a man who's like, “Oh, I'm curious to explore. And I'm curious to change a bit of point of view and see with you.” And, I think this is—this is what is beautiful.

Tash Doherty: Totally. In preparation for this talk as well, I was reading a bit of Esther Perel’s “Mating in Captivity.” So, basically, she talks a lot about how the erotic is about that distance, right? And that mystery. And I think also when you see your partner interacting with somebody else or flirting with somebody else, it can be really erotic because you see them in that external context, right? But it's that combination between like safety of the loving, intimate, uh, like cuddling and stuff, you know? Um, it's not, maybe not necessarily erotic, but then you see them in the context of being with other people. And that can be hot, too.

Pauline: No, it is. And it's also a thing about, like, when you've been a long time with someone, you're used to one body. And it's like really interesting to be like, for example, my boyfriend is skinny, and like having like a big guy, like kind of cuddling me. I was like, “Wow! Like, I feel so tiny!” But it also, it is actually interesting or like with girls or whatever. It's funny because you also explore your body, what you like, what you don't like. And I think, like, when you're in a relationship, it shouldn't be the end of exploring your sexuality.

Tash Doherty: That is so, so true. I also thought of one question during our conversation, which is, do you think that being French and culturally being raised in France has anything to do with it? Or now that you've traveled a lot around the world, what do you think being raised in a French culture has taught you?

Pauline: I've been like living in different countries. So, I've been raised in Thailand and then I like spend some time in China, Shanghai, Amsterdam and blah, blah, blah. But I don't think it has an impact to it. What has an impact to myself of doing this is that I've always been around so many cultures and I'm pretty open minded.

I'm not like, “Okay, this is not for me. This is not for me.” Like, I'm always like, “Okay, interesting. Why not?” And exploring is, for me, something that kind of like makes me alive. Like, I'm like really curious to understand. And open relationship, I didn't know if I would have liked it or not. I was more like, “Okay, before I say this is not for me, I want to see if it actually is.”

I love being around different thinking and maybe that's why I'm happy doing this and because I know it's not—I know that I desconstruct a lot of by myself, about like patriarchy, about like me as a woman, like sexuality. Like everything and arrive as a point where a lot of stuff you're like, “Okay, like I arrived in this world”. And a lot of stuff, you're like, “But why the fuck am I doing this?”

And I think I had a point in my life where I questioned everything. And I was like, why are we even like, I don't know, blowing candles for, for a birthday? Like a lot of questions.

Tash Doherty: Great question!

Pauline: And yeah, you know, why? "Yeah, it's normal.” I'm like, “No, it's not. Like how the fuck we ended up doing this?”

And then I'm like, “Okay, like, maybe there's some stuff that is not for me. Or maybe, like, what is normal?” And what people think is normal is maybe not my normality, and I want to explore and find what is okay for me, and what do I like.

Tash Doherty: Yeah. And well, number one, I just want to point out that maybe you guys do speak French both as your first language though, right? So there is something about maybe language. But yeah, how do you do that safely, I guess? At what point do you think you're exploring, and if you don't know if it's something that you want to do or not, how do you explore new things in a safe way?

Pauline: I think, like, you always have to sit down with your thought and kind of like ask yourself this question: am I okay right now? Do I feel safe? And I'm able to stop at any time. Like that's also something that is like really important. That's something that I didn't have in mind when I begin kind of that. You can stop at any time and say like, Bye. Like, I'm done. And it's okay. It doesn't mean you're a loser. It doesn't mean anything. It just means that right here, right now, you just don't want it. And it's okay.

I have a lot of people also who were like, “Yeah, I tried once and I hated it.” And I'm like, “Okay, cool. Like, but maybe it was also the context. Maybe the people you were with were not good.” Because I was like, I had sex with someone that were pretty bad and then I didn’t tell myself it wasn't for me. I keep continuing. And I, even if I knew if it was going to be fucking shitty, I continued.

It depends a lot with the people who you are with because I, we went on a date once and I was with this girl and I was like, “Okay, I don't feel you.” And it's, I don't want that. And we haven't done anything and that's, that's okay.

Tash Doherty: That's fascinating. And yes, I've also been to play parties in New York and stuff and It's a lot. I mean, lots of people that you don't know, it can be pretty overwhelming, and I think it's definitely in that situation where like, I can see how some people really thrive in an environment like that. But I think, yeah, there's all different kinds of things. You could have like a small threesome, you know, in your house. You don't have to go to like a 50 person orgy.

Pauline: You can do it on your own terms. It's your sexuality in the end. So, do yourself in your own terms. If you're more into parties because you know that, like, this is why we went at first, at least we know everyone wants the same thing. And we're not going to be scared of like, maybe, maybe not.

So we're like, “Okay, let's go.” But now we're like on this app called like Feeld and we're like, “Okay, maybe it's better because we don't want to party, and we just want to have a coffee. So maybe let's do something like that.” And, I think like you have to find your own way, which is nice because I think, as a girl, I never been teached that you can find your own way in your sexuality. It was more like you'll have what you got. And then, if you're not happy, that's what it is.

And yeah, and now I'm like, okay, I can actually choose what I want, what I don't want. If I want to be open, if I don't want to be open, if I want to explore this, this, this, this, I have the choice. And I think we don't say to a lot of women that they have the choice to feel whatever they want to feel, to explore whatever they want to explore on their terms.

Tash Doherty: Yeah, that's so important. And that's precisely why I wanted to talk to you today.

Do you now identify as like being part of the BDSM community? Because as we were talking about before, with communication and things and asking and consent, that's very prominent in that community, in a way that maybe other people who are in sexual relationships are not constantly asking each other how they're feeling?

Pauline: I don't know. It's a good question. I think because of my story, it's hard for me to like be part of like a community. Like, I don't know. I'm just me. I'm not black; I'm not white; I'm not French; I'm not Senegalese. I'm not, like, I'm not a lot of stuff. And it's hard for me to like, put myself in, um, like put a label on myself.

And for that, I was just like, I want to create my own identity. I want to create like my own labels and like play with it. And I think sometimes I'm this calm person that is in a normal relationship. And sometimes I'm like, okay, baby, let's go. Let's go explore it together. So, I think it's important for people to, to like define themselves with their own words, because maybe you like some stuff in that community, but not everything. So, you should pick whatever you like and create your own community and yourself and like whoever like bonds with you and agree with you, and that's cool.

Tash Doherty: Yeah. And it's so interesting that you say that because, like our language is can also be influenced a lot by the patriarchy. So, picking and choosing which words that help you to define your own identity, even though the language is preferenced towards men, is very important, as you were saying.

Pauline: Yeah, I agree on that.

Tash Doherty: Yeah. Thank you so much. I'm so grateful for this conversation. Was there anything else you wanted to add or anything that you wish that I had asked you?

Pauline: No, I think I have nothing to ask about like, yeah.

If some women's like, listen to that, I really want them to know that they have the power on their body and that being in a relationship is not, it's not the end of that. Because this is also a misconception that like people have an open relationship that like the man say it and you're like, “Oh, he's just a cheater and blah, blah, blah.” And you can also think about that yourself and like bring that. And yeah, and if your man want to cheat on you and leave, he will do it, like, with or without an open relationship. So, just do whatever you like.

Tash Doherty: So aspirational and hopeful at the end there about monogamous relationships. So, Pauline, this has been an absolute dream. I'm so glad we could chat, and I hope everything ends up going well and continue to travel to awesome places in the world. So, thank you!

Pauline: Amazing. Thank you. Bye.

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Outro

Thank you so much for joining us for another episode of Misseducated. If you found this conversation interesting or helpful, you can subscribe to our show in your favorite podcasting app. Also, please consider leaving us a rating and a review to help us spread the word and help others be shamelessly sexy. Lots of love, and I hope you’ll tune in again soon.